Recently, a friend sent me a Lime Crime lipstick.
Lime Crime ‘Mint to Be.’
I try to keep drama off my blog – I don’t like to be incendiary, or to perpetuate drama when I could be swatching pretties - so you might not know that I don’t support Lime Crime. It would take something very special for me to part with my money for one of their products. I find their ethics questionable over and over again. But god dammit, I *love* this lipstick.
I really like it even though a mint green is not all that unique…
I made this colour with Sleek Cloud 9 pout paint and a green Fyrinnae pigment.
…and it’s very expensive. However, if it wasn’t from a company I have so many negative preconceptions about, honestly, I would buy more. The forumla and pigmentation for a difficult colour like that were much better than I was expecting.
Now, I’m not going to start showering dodgy companies with my money. I have better places to spend it. But this got me thinking - I’m sure a lot of us have “morals” regarding makeup. I certainly do, even though I’m sure I buy things which are much worse than buying from someone who I think is a bad or shady person. I’m sure a lot of my food and clothing is unethically produced, for example, so why do I have such strong feelings about makeup? Well, aside from the fact it's something I am passionate about, personally I think that as a lot of makeup companies have a ‘face,’ it’s easier to direct anger at someone when something goes tits-up, there is often a culpable person. Also, if that someone does something really idiotic or cruel, it’s usually easier for us to find out as they are the face of the brand and will have lots of social media presence. Anyway, my questions are thus:
- Are there companies you boycott?
- What would it take to make you stop buying from a company?
- If something was interesting/pretty/unique enough, would you buy it even if you’d sworn to boycott.
- If you bought something from a potentially controversial company, would you lie about wearing it on your blog? (I.e., say it was from another brand, forget to mention the colour?)
Do I boycott certain companies? Yes.
Lying about ingredients/unsafe ingredients, scamming, harrassment/bullying and repeatedly poor customer service are some reasons why I wouldn’t buy from a company.
Would I buy from them anyway if I *really* wanted something? Yes. In all honesty, if it was something I really wanted and couldn't get elsewhere, I would. As for the last one, I’m not sure. I wouldn’t want to encourage someone to buy from someone I had a problem with, but on the other hand, my problems with a company may not be the same as someone else’s, so why should I enforce that opinion? I don't think I'll ever buy from certain companies, but if someone I knew wanted it as a gift..?
Lying about ingredients/unsafe ingredients, scamming, harrassment/bullying and repeatedly poor customer service are some reasons why I wouldn’t buy from a company.
Would I buy from them anyway if I *really* wanted something? Yes. In all honesty, if it was something I really wanted and couldn't get elsewhere, I would. As for the last one, I’m not sure. I wouldn’t want to encourage someone to buy from someone I had a problem with, but on the other hand, my problems with a company may not be the same as someone else’s, so why should I enforce that opinion? I don't think I'll ever buy from certain companies, but if someone I knew wanted it as a gift..?
What say you? I’m genuinely just interested, so please be nice to each other in the comments box!
While I'm not intending this to be a Lime Crime bashing post, I do think Mai's recent posts here and here are ones that ought to be read, if only just as an example of something that may turn someone off of a company.
While I'm not intending this to be a Lime Crime bashing post, I do think Mai's recent posts here and here are ones that ought to be read, if only just as an example of something that may turn someone off of a company.
Back to pretties tomorrow!
This company tears me apart. I love the packaging - I love the idea of the colours....but I just can't bring myself to give money to someone who lies so much.
ReplyDeleteIt's a shame really, companies who would otherwise have so much appeal really shot themselves in the foot.
DeleteI've seen so many things about Lime crime but my first experience of them was stumbling across a post of the owners poor actions (I don't remember where it was now since it was like a year ago). So that completely put me off the brand.
ReplyDeleteI'm also not a huge fan of the way their products look.
I wouldn't buy anything from them, no matter how pretty the product. This is the only company i completely ignore but if there were others i wouldn't buy anything from them unless they changed their ways.
I dont often see bad things about a company themselves, about products yes but not about the someone so senior in the company, so when you do see them you know its bad.
There are very few completely unique products. If you want bright lip colours then OCC are bound to have a liptar in the colour you want (including dupes for quite a few lime crime lipsticks) plus their Vegan and cruelty free and i've never seen any negative things about them as a company.
I agree, it's very rarely about the product, drama always seems to be about a person
DeleteActually, I saw swatches over on Silhouette Screams blog of a company called Secret Kisses who do really bright colours. AND free worldwide shipping!!
ReplyDeleteI placed an order yesterday, can't wait to try them! I'm hoping that 'Rockstar' will kill my pining for Airborne Unicorn :P
Theres always a dupe somewhere! Secret Kisses if from the same splitter supplier so I hope so!
Deletei honestly don't know if boycott is the right word for what i do...i just avoid buying if i hear bad things about the company. lime crime has been on my avoid list for a long time, mostly just because their prices are too damn high and i can get the same crap for so much cheaper from tkb. if a company i'm avoiding has something that looks really nice and the reviews are really positive, i might give them a chance.
ReplyDeletelime crime has been endorsed by so many blogs lately, and they seem to be newer, 'younger' blogs. they're some of my favorite blogs, honestly, and i did a double take when i saw several glowing reviews of lime crime all within a week of each other. i was like 'seriously'? i guess i just expect any blogger to immediately trash lime crime now? i don't know why that is. i wonder if it is because they are younger blogs, they just don't know/realize the drama surrounding lime crime? or maybe they do know it and just choose to ignore it because, hey, gratis to review. that probably sounds harsh but it's not meant to be. i don't begrudge a blogger any gratis they might get, it means they can tell me their honest opinion and whether this product is worth my money.
but...i don't know. did any of that make sense? lol.
Totally made sense.i for one think companies should usually be given a chance and I don't think automatic negativity helps if a company has genuinely changed. Not really talking about LC though, they've had plenty opportunity to sort it out imo, but unbiased reviews if any company can only help us all.
DeleteI think this is a great subject for a post, Robyn!
ReplyDeleteI too have been tempted by Lime Crime in the past - when they brought out that grey lipstick, I was so, so, close to placing an order as I've never seen anything like it anywhere else.
There are a couple of companies I refuse to shop with because I experienced poor and/or downright rude customer service.
I would never lie about wearing a product on my blog; I want my readers to trust me, and if I were to lie about the products I use and the companies I support, then they wouldn't be able to do that.
Would I buy something if I couldn't find a dupe anywhere else? Possibly.
I do think if you know something shady about a company, perhaps you should tell people.they can still make their own decisions about it. I think I'd not be sure where the line is between being informative and saying 'I don't support the company' and shit stirring!
DeleteI don't really boycott them so much as stuff like that makes me lose interest in them as a company. If they made something that looked amazing I probably would buy it. On the other hand there are some non-makeup companies I try to stay away from for ethical reasons, such as Nestle. I feel the wrong things they have done are much worse than Lime Crime.
ReplyDeleteI agree that in the grand scheme of things, Nestle is much much worse than most MU companies. I know a lot of people who avoid Nestle.it's so difficult these days when large companies own everything!
DeleteI wanted Lime Crime 'Cosmopop' for aaaages, such a nice colour and I LOVE the packaging. I wouldn't buy it, however, for reasons which have been discussed many times before in regards to Lime Crime.
ReplyDeleteAside from Lime Crime, there's only one company I wont buy from - since the products I received (my initial order and replacement) were iffy. Lipgloss with mystery chunks and streaky black pigment throughout. After I posted about it, I got emails from four others saying they'd also had problems with the same company.
I'm ridiculously stubborn, so when I say I wont do something I don't...So I can't really answer the other questions!
Cosmopop was one I wanted as well.I'm quite stubborn too, it does make me wonder.
DeleteI think I know the company you're talking about.
I read your blog post on that matter and had the same issue as you with a product I recently ordered from that company - streaky black pigment and all. I'm so disappointed that I did not have the same awesome experiences that almost every other blogger seems to have had (I've ordered twice now, there were issues both times). I feel like I can't speak up about it because people with think that I'm lying or that I'm just a difficult customer.
DeleteIt is awkward when that happens! Someone says 'oh, X company didn't do this well for me,' and all you can say it 'I've been fine!' I think if its a good company and you do blog about it, then they will fix the problem. Also good companies, in my experience never seem to have the glittermob others do... or is it just me who thinks that?
DeleteAnon, half the problem is that nobody will come forward about these issues! If the other girls had blogged about their issues, the owner would be forced to correct the products and nobody would feel 'alone' when they received duds. I'm tempted to order again, just to see if they've since improved.
DeleteI swore off Lime Crime after spending what was a lot of money for me, at the time, on her products and being disappointed. When I found out about the repackaging I actually ordered from TKB. I wanted to see the proof with my own eyes about the eyeshadows - I'd already experienced the dubious quality of the lipsticks as my tube of Styletto broke in a week and my tube of Airborne Unicorn was so thick and dry I could hardly apply it.
ReplyDeleteLo and behold, when I received my order of Hilite Gold and Purple Pop from TKB the colours were an exact match for the eye dusts 'Nymph' and 'Empress' - as many other bloggers have attested to. I can't bring myself to support Doe and/or her company in the face of such evidence.
Apart from an extreme dislike of re-packers, if I hear enough accounts of bad CS I will (usually privately) swear off a company. There are several brands, both indie and mainstream I will NEVER buy from. No matter what products they put out. I'm very stubborn ;)
Jessie: every colour Lime Crime has ever done you can find, with better prices, formula and customer service, from Morgana Cryptoria. Grey, yellow, mint green, black, blue, orange, a multitude of reds and pinks. It always makes me so sad when people laud the 'uniqueness' of Lime Crime. Especially since she came out with her gray lipsticks after Melissa announced hers...
I'm stubborn, too.
DeleteAnd I have noticed a few times things coming out after MC. The pastel colours and the vintagey collection all had similarities. It could just be indicative of trends of course, but still. If nothing else it goes to show they're not all that unique. I think they should give up that 'unique' stuff and just market them as fun colours. It's so easy to mix your own colours now anyway, no colour is really unattainable.
Customer device and interaction are probably the most important for me too. Shoddy products can be replaced, etc, but if someone is rude or bullshits, thats it for me.
ReplyDeleteI used to think that I had the right/ability to tell people not to buy from a place, simply because I had a bad experience or I thought it was overpriced, etc.
ReplyDeleteA few weeks ago though I watched an excellent review of some Tom Ford Foundations by Dustyohunter on Youtube and he talked about how the price was like $70 each. I immediately thought "oh hell no they can't be worth that much, I would never buy that crap, blah blah blah" and I loved that he basically said "How you make and spend your $ is your business, how I make and spend my $ is mine and it's not really up to you to tell someone else if it's worth their money because it's none of your business how they spend it" and I think it's something that's changed my philosophy on reviewing and buying products. I think I really discounted personal experience when I used to think and perhaps judge others for buying from a company I didn't like.
Right now, I don't want to buy from Lime Crime. 1, it'd be unscrupulous considering what's going on between the company and my current stance and 2, well I don't really have any desire to.
Still though, I think if I were to buy something from a brand that others hated, didn't like, would bring drama, I just wouldn't blog about it. Perhaps it's a lie by omission but I think it'd be worse to say "It's Revlon" when really it's Lime Crime.
Sorry for the long response! I think this is an interesting question of ethics and hypocrisy.
Glad you think it's interesting. It's something I think about a lot.
DeleteInteresting point about expensive products. A lot of people seem to instantly shun them, when they probably spend that much money on makeup anyway in a time period and have an *enormous* collection. I know that's a bit different, but really, it's still the same amount of money, just in a different way. I don't have the money to drop $70 on a foundation, but I can also see that I spend far too much money on makeup anyway! Personal experience is so, so key, and not everyone is going to happen to relate to your own.
You know how I feel about this. Excellent post, and too bad the lipstick is pretty.
ReplyDeleteIt is pretty! I'll be wearing it (you know, as often as one does with this shade.)
DeleteI had almost the same dilemma with this company not long ago. I just had to have 'Chinchilla' lipstick. Eventually I got it from Ebay and I have to say that the shade is absolutely beautiful (although the cap somehow developed a crack just by being on my dressing table).
ReplyDeleteI still feel a bit bad for owning LC product, though. :/
I think a lot of people fell for Chinchilla, so don't feel bad!
DeleteI honestly have a lot of difficulty in that I refuse to buy makeup that 'supports' animal testing. If its on the PETA Does Test list, I don't buy. Its cruel, and -completely- unnecessary for the sake of cosmetics. (And no, I don't really support PETA either, but its a comprehensive list, so I'll take advantage of the resource available xD Which I guess is like buying something you really want from a company you hate? :P Hate the company, love the list!)
ReplyDeleteYeah, PETA suck, but hey. If thats how you need to get the info that important to you, so be it! It's a good resource.
DeleteI've heard so much crap about LC and Xenia from so many different sources that I'd never shell out money for anything from them, even if it was the most lustworthy product I'd ever seen. I saw all the girls who'd been gifted with tons of free LC stuff recently and were singing their praises and it made me a little uncomfortable.
ReplyDeleteI think we draw our own line in the sand for various reasons - be they ethical, personal or whatever - and if we change our minds and want to buy from a company on our previously 'banned' list it's OK as long we can live with ourselves x
I think it's fine to change our mind as well.. Dunno if I would feel bad after though!
DeleteLike a lot of the other girls said, I don't necessarily boycott, I just don't buy from a company if I have issues with them or their practices. Even if they had something I really wanted. And if I did have something from a company I did dislike (acquired thru gift, etc.) I would not lie about wearing it. I would truthfully state what it was. Nothing about Lime Crime has ever interested me. It seems like when I first started getting into blogging is when a bunch of drama was going on with them, so I have stayed away. I don't think I've even looked at their website more than once.
ReplyDeleteInstead of boycotting companies, I tend to stick to supporting the companies I love. I haven' tried any new indie companies lately because I feel so dedicated to the ones I have tired, like their products, and like their owners. Darling Girl, Evil Shades, Meow, and Fyrinnae are my go-to companies. It has taken me a long time to even venture into the bigger brands like MAC and Urban Decay.
Great post! Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
I stock to companies I like, too.I do try new ones, but I will return over and over to the ones with great service and makeup. Simple I guess!
DeleteIt's a company that has too much controversy for me. They DO make some very interesting products, however, I don't want to have to deal with all the dust it would kick up if I used their products in a tutorial or review. I also don't want to perpetuate negativity, especially not on my channel, twitter or blog.
ReplyDeleteI don't think that they've done enough PR to correct the drama, but I do think there are two sides to every story. From experience, generally I know that people who like to start drama go about it in the most impolite/unprofessional manner, so I take their stories with a grain of salt because, often, it is not the whole story.
I wouldn't think any less of anyone who used their products for sure. I would probably think they had balls to post it though. :D
I don't like out when people hate on others for using stuff like LC either. you didn't part with any cash, and it's not on your face! And I agree re: drama, there is a way to be informative and neutral and then there is just shitstirring
Deletenever heard of this company thank for the heads up!
ReplyDeleteNo problemo! Google is your friend with new companies!
DeleteI read up on the Lime Crime controversy a few weeks back, and I had really mixed feelings about it; on the one hand, it seemed like the company was doing some shady stuff. On the other, it seemed like things could have been blown out of proportion by the blogging community. I don't boycott, per se, but I do think about how I spend my money. I don't think it's practical to boycott unless you have really firm evidence that a company has done something really awful, since most companies engage in somewhat shady business practices, or do business with companies that do. It's very hard to tell if every company you do business with meets the moral standards you would impose on them if you could.
ReplyDeleteNo, I would never lie about using a product that I didn't support; I would explain why I was using it despite having misgivings about the company, much like you have here. (BTW, that lipstick formula looks amazing, and the shade is surprisingly flattering!) At the end of the day, we choose where and how to spend our money, and that brings a lot of responsibility, but I don't feel like we should have to justify our spending choices to the whole world unless we want to. For instance, I had a stranger compliment me on my nail polish which led to a fairly in-depth conversation about high-end nail polish; she felt like it was unethical to spend $25 USD on a bottle of polish. And I feel like that's a personal choice. (The polish in question was a dupe of a Chanel polish; knock-offs have been accused of being unethical as well!) If you want to spend your hard-earned money on overpriced beauty products, who's to say that's unethical? And do you know that your inexpensive makeup being made by employees being paid a living wage in good working conditions? Why aren't we talking about the ethics of wearing makeup, which I've heard some people equate to "lying" about your appearance?
Sorry, I've typed too much (English major much?), but I definitely think these are important issues to think about, especially as bloggers-- we are basically representing the makeup-wearing community-- even if we don't all post publicly about it. Thanks for starting the dialogue!
I do think it's important to think about all these issues. As for whether its unethical to spend however much on whatever, plenty people wouldn't drop $25 I'm polish but they would repeat buy say..dunno. Drugs. Or..furniture.i guess what I'm trying to say us we all have a poison!
DeleteI'm in a bit of a pickle myself in terms of boycotting companies. With regards to the recent SOPA and PIPA acts, I learned that MANY companies including Revlon, Estee Lauder (including Bobbi Brown, MAC, Origins, etc), and L'oreal were actually supporting them! I wrote a whole blog about it, but in a nutshell, these companies are declaring war against beauty bloggers and consumers alike who purchase the products and help promote them. I've stopped buying from these companies, at least until the voting is over. But it's very painful to do so.
ReplyDeleteWow, thats shocking! Thank you, I may have to look that up.
DeleteI have two eyeshadows and four lipsticks from Lime Crime. They were all given to me as gifts because people know that I like weird makeup and they found such things on the Lime Crime site. I do use the products and I do like the products. However, I feel bad using them because of all the crap surrounding them. I do not purchase anything from them myself as I don't think the behaviour displayed by the company owner should be rewarded. I might boycott companies if I have had customer service issues or otherwise, but I tend to not be overly vocal about it because I hate drama on blogs and I think people should make their own decisions as their experiences may be different than mine.
ReplyDeleteWell said! I just never think I'm in a position to tell people what to buy or not buy, and it's hard to say 'I think this brand SUCKS' without sounding a little 'srsly guys, don't waste your bloody cash.' It's difficult.
DeleteI like mint green colour, but only on nails ;)
ReplyDeleteIt's gonna be big this spring apparently!
DeleteI really liked the look of LimeCrime's new Carousel gloss, and was so tempted to buy one. However, I just can't bring myself to give my money to that company. It irritates me more than anything, my damn morals getting in the way.
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't lie about using a LimeCrime product on my blog, though. I bought some glitters from Doe years ago before her brand really took off, when she used to do tutorials with Kryolan products. The glitters weren't great and I could've got them much cheaper elsewhere, but I really admired Doe's image.
Years later after reading about her pretty awful business ethics, I'm staying well away.
But I still sort of want one of those glosses :(
I know! The glosses do look nice - whatever the gold one is called looks interesting. I kind of think the glosses have got a lot of crap and I'm not sure how I feel about them. Obviously the promo images have been majorly shopped (like any product release tbh!) - but the glosses do look nice nonetheless.
DeleteInteresting post!
ReplyDelete*Are there companies you boycott?
=> Yep! Any company selling products using ingredients that have been tested on animals or which are owned by groups that does (i.e BodyShop, Loreal, etc.)
*What would it take to make you stop buying from a company?
=> Well, the reason above, or if I have myself a bad experience with a company. Probably if I read ONLY bad things about I would not be tempted to buy it but I usually rely on what I experience
*If something was interesting/pretty/unique enough, would you buy it even if you’d sworn to boycott.
=> Depend on the boycott reason. I had some issues with Madd Style about a package that has said to be sent twice but never received, and I said I won't buy from them again but I'm considering on giving a try again, because it could have been a misunderstanding.
Opposite, I had issues with Bad Bitch Cosmetics being not clear about shadows containing carmine, and this is much important to me so I won't buy anything again form them, even if they have really beautiful stuff
* If you bought something from a potentially controversial company, would you lie about wearing it on your blog? (I.e., say it was from another brand, forget to mention the colour?)
=> I don't think I'll lie, either I'd say the truth or I'd just don't speak about at all!!
About Lime Crime, I always read bad stuff about it, but I really wanna try the Kaleidoscope Caroussel gloss it's so pretty!
I've had issues with companies as well, and I've bought from them again. I think there's a certain point where I'd get to 'no fucking way,' but unless something was really, really bad it'd take more than one purchase for me to never buy from them again. Thanks for your reply :)
DeleteHmm ive read so many negative reviews on Lime Crime from repackaging to bad customer service to lying about their products (on PETAs list as vegan when they are not. Not that i trust PETAs list as they include Revlon which i will never buy)
ReplyDeleteI have a firm standpoint to not buy makeup from companies who test on animals - wether themselves, by someone else for them or via ingredients they need to hype their latest product. There have been a couple of products from these bad companies that ive looked at and thought 'damn this looks amazing' but then i think of the cruelty inflicted and it stops me even thinking about buying it.
I have some old MAC pigments which i would use in a look as they were bought when MAC was independent. But i'd always mention that they are pre estee lauder takeover.
It's a shame PETA aren't really a reputable resource :(
DeleteHonestly i think you should stop reading everyone else's bashing posts and make up your own mind about the company.
ReplyDeleteIf you have had great customer service, if you have great products who cares that others hate it (they could even say they hate it without trying it).
So make up your own mind before adding to the sheep in the "I hate limecrime" farm.
DITR, I think you didn't really read my post very carefully. I don't hate Lime Crime, I'm just not a fan as things they have done I find questionable - but as you can see, I have tried and do like the product I have (admittedly it's only one product, and it was gifted so I can't comment on the customer service, but it's very nice) and admitted in the post if I really wanted a product from *any* company, I would purchase it.
DeleteThis post was meant to discuss the fact that bloggers don't like certain companies for whatever reason, and why, not to specifically bash Lime Crime. They just happened to be a company who I didn't think I would try, and I happened to like the product, and it got me thinking. So please, don't call me a sheep for instigating a discussion, it's very insulting. And fyi, when there are thousands of 'bashing' posts online - well, there's no smoke without fire.
Oh, and I can see why as a potential LC seller, you would be upset by posts like this, but it doesn't look very professional in my opinion!
DeleteHm, I avoid Limecrime because when there was controversy about repackaging I contacted Doe Deere about it really nicely, wanting to trust her, trying to understand what was going on (since I supported the company before) and I got a really really rude answer telling me I was stupid for asking her that. I thought it was really strange, specially since I told her I trusted her and that I wanted to understand why people were saying that and why was that misunderstanding happening. It was a bit shady. Then I saw more and more posts about shady practices and decided that was it: I'd not buy from them ever again. Whenever I've used something I bought from them before boycotting, I'd say that I no longer supported the company. But I honestly couldn't bring myself to use it much. Besides, the packaging of the lipsticks broke really fast too :/ My sister has no problem with their practices, though, so she uses their products freely. The released glosses might be gorgeous, but Morgana does lovely glosses too, so I'd rather buy from her. :)
ReplyDeleteI boycott companies that test on animals (though sometimes there is no other option in my country ¬¬). I also try to avoid companies with harsh working practices. Zara, a clothing seller, used slave work here, so I don't buy from them anymore, even if I fall in love with a product. Same with bad customer service.
Honestly, it's my money. I want to give it to companies that really deserve it. Of course there must be many companies out there that have shady practices that I don't know of... but that's no excuse for buying from those I know have shady practices. If Doe ever assumed, explained or apologized for some of the things she's done, I'd buy from her again. Same with other companies I boycott (but Zara. Slavery is not forgivable, sry!).
Sorry if the comment is confusing! ^^'
Not confusing at all! And I agree with you - if a comapany did something wrong and then made steps to apologize and put it right, I absolutely would at least consider buy from them again.
Delete